On Oct 6, 6:04 pm, arch...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> "Although you may find it suspenseful to anticipate humans ever evolving
> to share metabolism of calves or evolving to metabolize species-specific
> milk of other mammals, foreign milk has "made available a new domain of
> diseases not previously commonly available at ones doorstep, so to
> speak." This is evidenced in the response of human immune systems that
> recognize & attack the antigens in milk across species. There is a
> consensus that measurable antibody levels reflect these disease risks
> (which you refer to as "no problem"). Type 1 diabetes continues to
> increase and there is a ~55% higher risk of Type 1 diabetes for children
> drinking cows' milk. -Cows' milk exposure and Type 1 diabetes mellitus:
> a critical overview of the clinical literature." Diabetes Care 17
> (1994). 13-19."
>
> Evolution of the mutation was the topic.
No. That's the topic you want to switch to. If you're talking about
the topic of this thread it was originally about calcium/osteo****osis.
Scroll. If you're talking about the topic you brought up later-
"On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, arch...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> About 10 k years ago those humans who had begun to consume milk after
> the domestication of cattle, sheep, etc. genetically evolved a mutation
> in the production of the enzyme lactase by which to continue the
> metabolism of milk "
There you were talking about being able to metabolize milk. Do you see
the above message? You typed it.
Next, you went further to claim humans have "no problems metabolizing
the proteins mentioned" in reference to the specific contents of milk,
which you clearly stated humans evolved to metabolize. Remember? You
can scroll up to see it but here it is:
On Sep 25, 1:49 pm, arch...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> >Mutated humans never "evolved to continue the metabolism of" casein,
> >insulin-like growth factor 1, chol, estrogen, etc in milk after
infancy,
> >especially not across species."
> Humans have no problem metabolizing those proteins you mention. What is
> your point?
And then I clearly answered your question about what my point was. And
now you are complaining that you want the point to be a different
topic- after ignoring the fact adult humans did not evolve to
metabolize milk from cows (which you claimed and tried to defend).
> there is no concensus on it.
Could it be you can't find any evidence to refute the example I gave
you after you challenged me?? And that you are daydreaming of "could
be"?
> The diabetes and tie continues to be a matter of no concensus, look at
> that publication date.
Oh, sorry. Here is a quick update for you. Apparently there is still
consensus that cow milk proteins contribute to diseases such as
diabetes for instance. After you refute this we can go to the next
disease resulting from consuming milk across species (since you did
claim there was "no problem metabolizing any of those proteins" in cow
milk). Here ya go:
"Background: Early exposure to cow's milk (CM) proteins have been
implicated in the pathogenesis of type 1 diabetes (T1D). Objective: We
analyzed the development of the humoral immune response to dietary CM
proteins in early childhood and its relation to later T1D. Subjects
and methods: We studied a subgroup of 94 children randomized to be
weaned to a CM-based infant formula in the trial to reduce insulin-
dependent diabetes mellitus in the genetically at risk (TRIGR) pilot
study. All subjects carried human leukocyte antigen-conferred T1D
susceptibility and had an affected first-degree relative. After 7
years of follow-up, 8 subjects had progressed to T1D, 15 had at least
one disease-associated autoantibody, and 71 remained autoantibody
negative (controls). Immunoglobulin (Ig) G and IgA class antibodies to
whole CM formula, beta-lactoglobulin (BLG), bovine serum albumin, and
alpha-casein and IgG antibodies to bovine insulin (BI) were measured
with enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays from sequential samples.
Results: The children with later T1D showed increased IgG levels to
BLG from 3 to 18 months of age (p = 0.028) and enhanced IgA levels to
CM formula at the age of 9 months (p = 0.022) compared with controls.
In the children with an affected father or sibling, IgG antibodies to
BI were higher in autoantibody-positive subjects than in autoantibody-
negative subjects at 18 months of age (p = 0.022). Conclusion: An
enhanced humoral immune response to various CM proteins in infancy is
seen in a subgroup of those children who later progress to T1D.
Accordingly, a dysregulated immune response to oral antigens is an
early event in the pathogenesis of T1D." Pediatr Diabetes. 2008 May
21. [Epub ahead of print]
> One can find other studies since that say
> otherwise
So it would be like a split decision vote for you (assuming you can
find contradicting evidence) & you can continue to claim humans
evolved to consume cow milk using these "other studies since that say
otherwise"?? Remember I just gave you 1 disease example. There are
more but let's take it slow and let it be dry/boring!
> and which say no or answer not clear, as is so often the case
> in questions ****h as these.
OK, let's try. I'll call your bluff...
> "Because of the specific contents of cows' milk, there are many
> additional autoimmune diseases, cancers, macular degeneration,
> Alzheimer's, etc that are dose-dependent/positively associated with
> human consumption of foreign milk."
>
> Would b happy to review relevantt web based studies.
I just provided one above/more recent- as you requested. Will you
respond to my rebuttal of your claim humans have no problem
metabolizing contents of cow milk now or that adult humans evolved to
suckle cow udders? Or will you switch the subject again? Let's...
see...
> We obviously need
> to use only domestic milk.
??
Chris
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